Should religious leaders, such as the pope be weighing in on condom use to prevent the spread of disease? Why or why not? Do religious leaders have an obligation to understand the science and provide medically accurate information? Or are they only obligated to uphold religious dogma? Why or why not?
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I do side with the many people that are upset over the Pope's comments that condoms do not help decrease aids/HIV spread. I do not think it is his place to say that only abstinence will prevent the spread. It will prevent the spread but in all reality it can not be the only possible solution in this day. If condom use has already decreased the spread, then why not continue to encourage the use and only say when unable to abstain, use condoms! If you are to help people then you must think the way they do and not the way you believe they should think. In religion it is so controversial because not everyone can live up to the angelic ways that we should. We are only human with human tendencies and of course we can not always abstain but we can ethically practice some sense and use condoms. I would imagine that condom use has also prevented the births of children who will suffer from this cruel disease. I do think that our religious leaders should be free to speak but they should consider us as people when they speak. In considering they should think of what is reasonable to ask of us. I do think condom use is reasonable and so is abstinence but I do not think it is reasonable to say that the use of distributing condoms with increase the spread. With distributing condoms it helps people recieve the resources they need and I'm sure when they distribute condoms they try to educate the people to also abstain to prevent getting infected. With assuming that they do not is like saying they are ignorant. Information is valuable as long as we use it!
I think religious leaders should be able to speak their opinion on things such as condoms use to prevent the spread of disease, because of freedom of speech, everyone should be able to say what they want. Whether or not people have to listen is a different story. I don’t think that anyone should be able to enforce their opinion on someone else. We have a thing called free will, and you can say your opinion on whether or not you think something is right but you can’t make someone agree with you, and you shouldn’t try to force them to. I think it would be better for them to understand science and medical facts before they express their opinion, just to get the facts straight. Maybe then people would listen to them more, and with more of an open mind. But in return they have to have to try to have an open mind about things as well. The fact of the matter is, you can tell someone something until your blue in the face, nothing is really going to MAKE them think the way you do. They have to do in on their own. I think being religious figures, they have a certain obligation to think and do things a certain way, but they chose that lifestyle, they shouldn’t try to enforce their feelings and lifestyle on others, they’re wasting their time. Every person has to make the decision for themselves. I think if the pope wants to weigh in on his opinion about condoms, he should get all the facts and then assess his opinion, that’s what I mean when I say being open minded. I honestly don’t think something like distributing condoms, will increase the spread, if anything it might make people use them more. But not everyone is going to be convinced and that’s just that. The right information COULD be very powerful but everyone has free will and their own opinion about things, you might try to make someone see things the way you do, but in the end it has to come from that person wanting to see things the way you do.
I feel the pope or other such religious people do have the right to weigh in on use of condoms since it does directly effect their religious views in a roundabout way if that makes sense. But I do say the pope and others like him do need to present medically accurate information to the people. It not only helps them strengthen their postions it also starts to get the medical backing that will just further shore up their postion. For example I was given a dimesion oriented describtion of sperm vs AID in highschool but I was recently told it was wrong because of the latex weave being different then what was called "sheepskin" but I wasn't told how they are different how old the "sheepskin" is, when were they in use and other such details. Both were presented in school the example in Health the "Sheepskin" in this class but yet I find the example more prevaling and more "Truth-sounding" then the "sheepskin". Why? Because I know a sperm is made up of a single cell that is thick for reproduction while an AID cell is meant to get into and infect a cell which suggest to me that AIDS is smaller since you can't be bigger then what you want to get into so to me the idea of a weave not being tight enough to stop it sounds logically to me and would make me stop to consider. The religious groups could use similar more true statements to help such as does the weave actually hold the AIDS in if so which ones and which not and %s of faliure, what about fluid that gets around the condum if the girl is a carrier how does that effect things? So forth and so forth. Just the fact the Pope or other religious people are asking about this would get people to stop and ask themselves how true is it. It would put people off until the studies are done which is the churches intent in the first place so to me it seems that using medical info or even the studies to find the answer to those questions would be far more useful then religious dogma of any sort.
believe that religious leaders should have a say, but only to be considerate and not direct. It’s a personal choice whether a person wants to use a condom or not. I would prefer the use of one to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and the spread of diseases. However, religious leaders should not give medical advice because they are not doctors. No one can tell us who we can and can’t have sex with. It is all personal choice. As a pope or a priest, they should only uphold to their religious values, and not give medical advice. I do believe however condoms are not the only solution to unwanted pregnancies. Men have vasectomies, and women have oophorectomy or other procedures. There also the notion of abstinence, however not everybody believes in abstinence. Religious leaders should be willing to understand both sides of the use of condoms, religiously or for medical uses. I believe the key to success to unwanted pregnancies and prevention is knowledge. Yes, you can give a condom to a couple, but are they going to learn anything besides on how to use one effectively? No. By knowing the risks and consequences of sexual activities, it can be a great help if they have the available resources to them. We live in a world where everybody has a choice. The choice to use a condom or not is entirely up to the individual. As mentioned before religious leaders should help out a bit, but not to give medical advice.
Religious leaders should not be able to weigh in condom use. I do understand that everyone has freedom of speech but in my opinion the main goal of the pope is for the people to practice abstinence not for people to stop using condoms. There are a lot of people that might take the pope’s recommendation and have unprotected sex instead. It is irresponsible for the pope to give inaccurate medical advice the same way that it would be irresponsible for any one else to give medical advice if they don’t have the titles to do so. He should consider our well being as well. Religious leaders should have the obligation to be medically accurate because they give advice that people will actually follow. In this case if people did not want to use condoms and had sex they would be more likely to get any sexual transmitted disease not just HIV/AIDS. In addition without condoms the pregnancy rate would also increase. What if some of those expecting mothers didn’t want to have those babies? There would be another issue with abortion which the church is against as well. So far condoms have radically decreased the spread of disease and pregnancies so they should definitely be used. The pope should focus on abstinence which will truly prevent the spread of disease instead of saying that condoms increase disease.
I don’t necessarily think that the pope should be weighing in on condom use to prevent the spread of disease but I do think that if the pope or other religious leaders come out and talk to the people many people might actually listen to what they have to say. I am not saying that religious leaders have the power to reach out to people, because I believe that the only person in my life that has power is God, but they have a lot of influence on people who are religious. I do think that religious leaders have an obligation to understand the science and provide medically accurate information. There wouldn’t be any progression if they stayed in the past. The world is constantly changing. If they are going to speak out to the people they need to be fully aware and be updated in order to explain so the people understand. I don’t think they are only obligated to uphold only religious dogma because they are living on earth around different kinds of things and people; they are not living in a bubble. What would happen if a person didn’t have the choice to have kids through in-vitro fertilization? They would never get a chance to have kids on their own. Another example would be with the new advances throughout the years that we have obtained, we are now able to kill diseases. I always hear about other countries for example, Africa, that are unaware of the use of condoms to prevent diseases from spreading. I do not blame the people for being unaware but the government for not doing anything about it. Many people in many countries are uneducated on several matters and the government should have stepped in to do something about it. The pope in this matter is a very influential figure for many Catholics and that is why he can create a big impact on the people, so if other countries would gather a highly influential figure as well to influence those who are non-Catholics that can possibly be impacted on the matter, then I think that it would be a great matter. I don’t see it as just because this person or that said it you should do it. I feel that we all have our own minds and we should make our own decisions, but having people like the Pope make important statements like that could make us aware and think more about the matter.
In my opinion it is everyone’s responsibility & right of knowing about infectious diseases in order to provide & obtain accurate medical information. The use of comprehensive treatment has been established social norm in many segments of life. The reason being is that condoms alone will not solve the HIV epidemic. If you think about it with any infectious disease educators alike try to inform the public in various ways of how one contracts, transmits a disease as well as how to prevent it. Education of this as well as teaching how & why to reduce risky practices of sexual behaviors will have positive outcomes in changing & reshaping their sexual behaviors that will exhibit a continual gradual lower rate in the transmission & getting infected. Abstaining from sex &/or being faithful to everyone’s own partner are part & goals of the comprehensive treatment & education especially for individuals that are HIV positive. Wearing a condom should always be an option especially for those who cannot abstain themselves. This would be considered to be a start of developing sexual responsibility to themselves & others. No one is perfect. One of the positive outcomes of church’s is the outreach & raising money to help build medical facilities for people in Africa, you have to admit that without the hearts & souls that gave into these projects have made an impact in societies that have been stricken with this horrific disease that have left many villages of only children & no adults to care for them. In those children’s eyes all that they know is that there are people reaching out when their parents are no longer there to comfort them in their time of need of comfort & most of all their attending long term need of medical care. Religious leaders have the right as well as individuals to uphold their beliefs as well as at the same time they don’t fully impose what they believe is right or wrong on others. No one has the sole patent of being able to give final judgment of what is right or wrong and has no right to do so. Information can be brought forth but it is ultimately up to the individual of what to do with it, because everyone has their own free will & I believe it has been given to us for a reason.
Religious leaders of the world like the Pope have a responsibility of helping and educating the population in every way they can.There might be a lot of different issues like poverty, health related and political issues.The religious leaders need to give some kind of guidance up to how these issues should be approached in the context of their belivief system.The fact that the Pope said condom is wrong for Africa in order to deal with the AIDS epidemic should be supported.He is preaching the people who can follow him.Those people are in alliance with the chiristian belief system and the approach of abstinence is not new for them.The Pope is basically stating his way of approaching how to control the spread of AIDS.Whom ever agrees with him follows that and be saved from the disease.Some people might choose a different way like using condom but it is not 100% guarantee because during intercourse, the condom might break.Weather it is a religious leader or a community health care personnel who teaching the people how to protect them selves,what matters is the meaningfulness of the approach to the problem.It does not matter who said it as long as it is said in understanding of what needs to be done to prevent this awful disease.And yes, religious leaders need to step in and help out the community to fight this disease.It is not just from the moral stand point but also from the point of getting rid of the disease.The Pope is not saying no more sex but to do it in responsible way like by forming marriage and staying committed to one person.I think it is necessary to have religious leaders to take a more active role in this world to fight the epidemic by balancing the moral and practical matters together.
When talking about The Pope or any such religious figures, like celebrities, their influence can be great or little. Having the Pope say that using condoms is a "personal failure" doesn't help, especially in a environment (Africa) where more that 50% of reported infections are in women and girls who for the majority have no ownership over there own bodies. AIDS isn't just being spread though sex in Africa, under or non-sterilized medical equipment, blood transfusions, and FGM easily makes this disease spread. Look whats even going on in our own VA Hospitals, just to save money, lives are being put at risk. I think the Pope had to half a step backtrack himself because sexual violence was mentioned. Rape is a popular tool in war and is spreading HIV/AIDS. That and old wives tales and a culture that tells you that sex (rape) with a virgin is a cure all. So here you have Rwanda and Sudan among others entrenched in ethnic cleansing. Christians and Muslims not really getting along. Then the Pope comes along to talk about condoms being ineffective to prevent AIDS when many if not most Africans had never seen a condom or know how to use one. So you can see where there would be some outrage and confusion. To quote from an essay in my ENG101 book 'AIDS Has a Woman's Face' by Stephen Lewis "You have drugs in your country to keep people alive. Why can't we?" This was from a woman in a clinic in Zambia that tests women and some women may even receive nevirapine which will help prevent the spread of HIV while giving birth. So I think that the Pope should stick with the pulpit and spreading goodwill.
Well of course religious leaders can comment about condom use to prevent the spread of diseases. This is exactly what the Pope did. However this does not mean that what they say is right or has to be agreed to by everyone else on the planet. I think that what the Pope said does make sense if you interpret what he says as if you use a condom it means you are having sex. If you are having sex with someone you are not completely familiar with it is entirely possible you could get a disease. Condoms as we all know are not 100% effective, they are only one option of many to help prevent the spread of disease. In order for what the Pope said to be accurate he should have elaborated on how the church came to this conclusion, if not it only leaves way for many to “misunderstand or interpret” what he said as something completely different. Of course I do not feel that the use of condoms is increasing the HIV/AIDS epidemic but does that mean that my comment is right or wrong? No it is merely one person’s opinion about the subject. I do feel that in order for their comments to be justifiable they need evidence to back up why they feel this way. They should absolutely understand the medical and science behind condom use before spouting off about how condoms increase HIV. This statement completely dumbfounds me because as I have mentioned before it is clearly not accurate. Religious beliefs are not what they were hundreds of years ago when much of our history was beginning to be documented. We now have the technology and the knowledge to prevent and educate people on safe sex practices. Yes it is the belief that safe sex is no sex unless with one partner you are married too in the Catholic Church. Not everyone believes this nor follows it. We can combine religious beliefs and medical fact but will they mesh well? No not always! We are all entitled to voice our opinions and what we feel is fact. This as we know it today is our right to freedom of speech. The Catholic Church never ceases to amaze me with their controversy and dilemma. I say… keep talking and say what you wish; it will make me continue to wonder why organized religion ever advanced in the world in which we live today.
Religious leaders such as the Pope should not be weighing in on the use of condoms as a means to prevent disease, especially if they chose to make irresponsible statements as he did on his trip to Africa. The Pope and others like him are there mainly for religious instruction. They try to instill morals and principles that benefit mankind, which is an admirable undertaking; however, with the invention of the pill and the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s, society has accepted and no longer frowns upon sex before marriage. It is this change of attitude in society, rather than the condom that has caused the increase in risky sexual behavior. The Pope and other religious leaders may preach fidelity in marriage and abstinence, but many of their parishioners do not hold to those beliefs, at least not the abstinence part. This is especially true in countries like Africa. They have a different culture, and different beliefs from that of our own. A relatively small portion of Africa’s population is Catholic, yet the Pope seems to have great influence with many people, whether they are Catholic or not. It is because of the influence that the Pope has that he should feel obligated to learn as much as he can about the African culture, but he should also feel an obligation to learn about the disease that has so greatly impacted the lives of those he is trying to spiritually help. From reading the articles attached to this blog, fidelity in marriage is not and has not been the norm in Africa. Their culture is quite different from ours in the way they think about sex. The men have multiple partners, which has contributed to how quickly the AIDS virus has spread. It doesn’t sound as if women are held in high regard either. The attitude towards women and sex contributes to the danger that women especially are in, as far as being exposed to the virus goes, and if they don’t currently have the virus, they are at great risk of contracting it. The Pope should look at the attitudes held in this country, and while trying to promote fidelity in marriage and abstinence, which are good practices in themselves to help stop the spread of AIDS, he should also understand and acknowledge that condoms can also help prevent the spread of AIDS. He should want to help those who don’t have the disease to protect themselves from it, and to help those who have the disease to spread it no farther. Although he doesn’t agree with condom use as a means of birth control, he wouldn’t be promoting it for that use. He would be promoting the preciousness of life which is a belief he holds very dear. If one partner in a marriage has the virus and the other doesn’t, why would he want to condemn the partner without the disease to certain death? Or to condemn both partners to a sexless marriage? Or to condemn to death an unsuspecting person who has no idea the person they had sex with has the disease? The Pope and others like him can, with scientific information and a new perspective on their own beliefs, use their influence to greatly benefit people.
The Pope should not weigh in on condom use because the Catholic faith has nothing to do with the issue at hand and he is not an expert. The pope is entitled to his opinion and freedom of speech but like with other public figures when their opinions hold weight with some of the people at large and this becomes dangerous especially on such a topic as this. Would it be realistic or acceptable for the pope to determine you have this disease so just pray on it and you will be fine? No, of course not because he is not a doctor. We cannot stop people from listening but it is a public health risk when a layman offers his biased opinion as if they are an expert. Religious leaders are in a position to influence and lead their flock down the path highlighted by their deity. They uphold their dogma because it is what they believe, just like their position on gay marriage. They believe that they are obligated to hold up their dogma because it is the “right way” of their religion. However, I believe that as human being they are obligated to understand all the facts and provide a reasonable, logical position, factually correct and supported by evidence. Ignorance is no excuse and I believe everyone should be educated before they take a stance. While I do not feel that the pontiff is doing such a thing by holding up his dogma of “birth control is bad” with no corroborating evidence, I’m sure him and his supporters think he is. This is one of the main problems with religion. While everyone has their own biases to overcome in order to be as informed and logical as possible, it seems to be if you are religious, it is even harder or even impossible to do so. Condoms are proven to stop the spread of AIDS and though there is no guarantee, condoms are currently the only way to stop the spread of the disease from person to person during sexual contact. There is no scientific data to suggest that using condoms leads to riskier sex practices therefore one doesn’t have the right to extrapolate, guess and use “common sense” when it comes to policies that affect others lives such as this. I think that it is common sense that people that use condoms are more aware and conscious about their decisions therefore they will not engage in riskier sex. My previous statement means nothing because it is only my opinion and has no evidence to back up my claim. There is no evidence, some people engage in riskier sex for other reasons than using a condom so really, how could we determine this accurately? The only difference between my previous statement and the Pope’s statement is that he is an international figure who is followed by millions of people who listen to what he has to say religiously. While my claim supports the current pro-condom agenda it has no evidence, therefore it also has no significance. Just because condoms have worked in Cambodia and Thailand and it currently hasn’t in Africa doesn’t mean that condoms don’t work. Cambodia and Thailand have other pieces to their plans to combat AIDS, which is why it has work in partner with condoms and the circumstances and culture in the countries are dramatically different so it is unreasonable to extrapolate from these examples. Condoms were required in Thailand in sex trades where 44% of those in sex trades were infected which infected their clients, their spouses and their children. Cambodia had a prevalence of more than 0.7% in 2008 and 0.9% in 2006. In addition, 93% of HIV-positive people in Cambodia have received medical aid, 70% of AIDS orphans in the country have been sponsored by the government, and education campaigns have reached rural and boarder areas, according to the figures. These statistics are completely different from Africa therefore it is not sufficient to say that while condoms have been used they are ineffective or making the problem worse.. Of the 39 million people infected with HIV around the world, more than 25 million live in sub-Saharan Africa, where in some countries one in three adults is infected. (IFPRI, HIV/AIDS and Food and Nutrition Security: From Evidence to Action, 2005). And in three African countries over 20% of the population has HIV/AIDS. For instance, in Uganda, which has 5% of the population infected, between 120 and 150 million condoms are required annually, but less than 40 million were provided in 2005. In Africa there are problems with civil war, political corruption, inaction of leaders, and the majority of infected people do not receive care, to name of few of the issues there it is inaccurate to make the sweeping overgeneralization that condoms aren’t working and are making the problem worse. As far as the abstinence and faithful marriage plans, abstinence only programs in US didn’t work, the rate of teenage pregnancies actually increased for the first time in 14 years when the White House implemented the programs. While decreasing the number of sexual partners does decrease your chances of becoming infected, when the rate of infection is one in every three people you have good chance of marrying someone who is infected so condoms should still be used and even if both abstained from sex before marriage there is no guarantee your spouse will stay faithful. That is an unrealistic expectation and in the real world this problem needs to be addressed effectively, aggressively and immediately. That is why condoms need to be promoted and given freely that way people can access them and there should be a campaign that they should be used no matter what to help curb the problem. This can be done in conjunction with abstinence and faithful marriage plans but it is unrealistic and dangerous to not promote condoms as well. The Pope’s biased and inaccurate comment does more harm than good in the campaign against AIDS and I think he should stick to his theology instead of branching out into public policy.
For Miriam -
I think it is a mistake for the pope to be expressing the non use of condoms to the people of Africa. The disease is so rampant and out of control already, that there is an obvious need to address the issue. The pope has a very strong message for the Catholic population in Africa, but I do not agree with its contents. The pope’s beliefs in abstinence are valid but do not represent all opinions for the belief itself, but in reality, for all his believers, abstinence is obviously not being practiced .The use of condom’s is an issue that has to be dealt with on a level that will help to protect all of humanity, not to be dealt with only on a religious level of thinking. Being in that we as a population is not all christen, his message will fail to hear by all. Disease has no religion, and it merely survives and propagates through careless action where there is opportunity to thrive, it is all about survival and propagation. By proposing to stop the usage of condoms is only going to make an already out of control issue the opportunity to prevail.
I think it is a huge responsibility for the church to be empathetic and understanding in the changes of society, technology and humanity. I think if you are in the position to educate and advocate for your beliefs, it would be a crucial step in educating yourself about that topic before you try to educate others. Condoms prevent other sexually transmitted diseases as well as unwanted pregnancies and therefore would reduce the amount of abortions. H.I.V is not going to go away by prayer alone. Only understanding the disease and how it is spread, not only through unprotected sexual behavior, But in all areas of this disease. Saying that the use of condoms will only increase the spread is absurd. I Think the Pope needs to focus on Ways to deal with the situation at hand and not focusing so much on trying to change cultures and social ways of already desperate populations. He is dismissing the disease as is and trying to use preventative measures when it is too late!
I don’t think that the pope should be weighing in on condom use because it is up to the couple whether they choose to use it or not. But it would be better if they chose to use because it will prevent the aids/HIV to not be spread. It will also prevent many pregnancies if people were to have protective sex. I think that religious leaders should have the obligation to understand the science and have accurate medical information because these people are always advising people on what to do. And people will sometimes do what these religious leaders tell them because they think that they know what they’re saying. If the religious leaders don’t know or understand all that medical and science information then I think that they shouldn’t people what to do regarding this because that would be like if I was prescribing some kind of medicine to someone without knowing what I’m giving them. So I believe that the religious leaders should know and understand the science and medical information for the safety of those people that listen to them and also for their own safety.
In medical ethics religion plays a role even though it shouldn’t, but Pope Benedict XVI should not have the right to slam something that has been helping stop the spread of the HIV/AIDS. But the negative comments made by him could cause a negative effect on stopping the spread of the virus. He is not a physician and cannot make statements such as condoms aren’t preventing new AIDS cases. They have the right to voice their concerns about contraceptives and how it is looked down on the use of them in catholic families. But the pope should not have the right to say that condoms don’t work just because he doesn’t believe in them. I think that a religious leader has background knowledge of medical care or medical ethics. But since the pope has limited experience in the health care field he should not response to health facts with negative religious beliefs. The pope can not think that “spiritual and human awakening and friendship for those who suffer", are the only things that can help cure AIDS or help ease the rate of new cases of HIV. When talking about sexual abstinence the pope can think that it is possible and that hopefully many will try to stay that way but that is a vision that is not very likely. For those who don’t stay abstinence how will they protect themselves, that’s what condoms are for. But they do have the right to preach as much as they want about the religious dogma they believe. They have more of a right to uphold their religious dogma they can preach as much as they want because not all people will believe or listen to what they say. So I think the pope should do more research of what he’s talking about then he should think about what he’s going to say.
- In the third world, the voice of the pope would probably gain acceptance over the inaccessible scientific fact. Pope realizes that and also knows that African countries especially need the continual use of condoms due to distributed sexual activity and aggravated HIV/AIDS spread. Preaching about “spiritual awakening” is one thing, and providing inapplicable solution is another. If abstinence is really applicable (which the pope claims is the solution), we wouldn’t have needed condoms at the first place. Nobody in religion, including the leader should use religion as a means of imposing personal opinions and no, they should not give biased and loftiness-infected opinion that has nothing to do with religious mission (which should completely rely on the word of God).
- Religious leaders are the leaders of the followers of that particular religion. The reason pope would rather talk about condom to African countries (nobody would listen to him elsewhere) rather than praying for the pain, suffering and death in Africa (what Christians that are based on the word of God do) is because of what is called ego. You are appointed to lead the religious mission of fighting sin and spiritual awakening. God doesn’t fight science like religious leader’s do because God knows in this world, we believers can not be fully God-like. Since most of us can not be abstinent and still sin by having sex, using condoms to reduce sexually transmittable diseases is simply being safe while we sin. But, if you are the religious leader and know that condoms does work, why would you deceive and expose others to these diseases? I, personally, think pope doesn’t really care how his opinion of condom usage is going to play out and he just wants to reflect his religiously dogmatic opinion on every situation in the world. It doesn’t matter what science says or what the medically accurate information is, religious leader’s have an already made up mind on how they are going to respond to a particular drama in the world. Whether it kills people or destroys the safety issue, they would just give their ego-infected opinion, whether their God has said anything about it or not. So, I think religious leader’s should always stay on their task of leading the spiritual awakening mission and just pray and hope the best for the world’s pain, suffering, and death.
I think outside of the religious community, the pope should keep his comments to himself because not everyone has the same views. Its fine that’s what the pope wants to teach catholics and they have every right to follow his lead. In this case medical expertise over power by far anything that the pope has to say. What does he know hes not a doctor he doesn’t have an MD at the end of his name so his information is irrelevant. Yes, if they are going to be leaders, they should know what they are talking about before speaking on a subject like HIV/AIDs. If we didn’t have condoms this World would be over populated then it already is and we would have an epidemic on sexually transmitted diseases. Religious leaders should stick to what they know and practice and leave medical science to the researchers and scienists
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